Ryan Leaf talks growing up in Montana, playing behind Dave Dickenson, and being recruited by the Griz
Last month, the Montana Mint Sports Podcast network had the pleasure of sitting down with Ryan Leaf for an hour. He’s someone who has been through a lot to say the very least, and he’s come out on the other end better and stronger. Ryan dished on growing up in Great Falls, being recruited by the Griz, and playing high school hoops. We also got into Ryan’s struggle with substance abuse, and a decision he made while in prison to turn his life around. A transcript of the interview is below.
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Luke (Montana Mint/Griz Fan Podcast): My guest today is former NFL quarterback Ryan Leaf. You guys may know Ryan from several venues because his story sort of supersedes the world of sport. Ryan, thanks for being with us here today.
So Ryan, what brings you back to Montana?
Ryan Leaf (Great Falls guy/former NFL QB): Oh, a client of mine wanted me to speak at a local event here on campus, actually. It’s called The Rock Stars of Health Summit, and I was their keynote speaker this morning. And then I’ll get a chance to spend some time with my family, and then, Glacier Healthcare as well up there on the Hi-Line kind of, is having me speak Sunday and Monday, and then I’ll head back home. I live in Los Angeles now at this time.
Luke: So when you typically land in Great Falls, I presume, to visit your folks, how long does it take you to realize, “Oh my God, the wind blows so hard here!”
Leaf: I think you’re so used to it that it doesn’t necessarily … It’s funny when I travel around the country, because we’ll be in places and people will be like, “God, it’s blowing so hard!” especially in California, and the guys are like, “I’m not going to play golf today, it’s blowing too hard.” And I’m like, “Are you kidding me? This is heaven.” If we could have had these kind of days growing up here in Great Falls and on the Hi-Line, we’d play golf every day of the year.
Leaf: So after having been away for such a long time, when it hits you in the face for the first time, you’re just like, “Whoa. This is different.” This is what I remember, type of mentality.
Luke: But L.A. hasn’t really softened you up at all.
Leaf: I don’t think it’s softened me up. I like coming back to the cold and I do know this. My fiancee and I, I have a little deal with her. I say I’m willing to move anywhere and be with her just as long as two things. I can play golf 365 days a year, and wear flip flops 365 days a year.
So living in a place where it snowed hasn’t necessarily stopped me from wearing flip flops all the time, but I want to be in a place where I can honestly play golf 365 days a year, where I live.
Luke: Awesome. That’s good goals, good goals.
Leaf: Yep.
Luke: So looking back at sort of your Wikipedia page, and I noticed you guys, you helped win a 1992 state football championship. And it struck me, it’s something I never won, but I was thinking, what was more rewarding for you? Was it winning that championship, or getting a verified Twitter account?
Leaf: Oh, definitely winning that championship.
Luke: Everyone wants the verified blue check mark.
Leaf: Really? I think it’s really good for what I do and how I work with people who are struggling with mental health and substance abuse issues. I think that’s the only real positive thing that comes out of having a verified thing on there, is at least they know who they’re talking to and they can be able to be more transparent and vulnerable when it comes to that.
But winning that ’92 title, man. I was a junior. That team was senior-laden, a bunch of my heroes kind of growing up. I watched Dave Dickenson my freshman year, win a state championship. We didn’t even make it to the playoffs my sophomore year, and then my junior year we were ripe for the taking, and to go on the road and beat a Helena Capital team that was undefeated up to that point with a lot of future Grizzlies on that defense and to win, that’s huge.
Leaf: I really kind of cherish that state championship out of all the things that I’ve been able to do playing football.
Luke: So I’m glad you mentioned heroes. Growing up in a small town in Montana, I would always go and check the paper, the Great Falls Tribune, to check in on some of my heroes. Locally we had some great guys, Kurt Schilling, who played for the Griz, we had Mat Seidensticker, and then we had some Great Falls folks like yourself and Dave Dickenson. Mike Warhank was a stat phenomenon.
Who were some of your heroes growing up in that area?
Leaf: Well, Dave Dickenson was first and foremost. He was my first hero because we grew up a block and a half from each other, and when I finally was old enough to get to start playing in the pickup basketball, and pickup football games, just down the street at North Middle School, that was the big time for me. And I always wanted to be like him. And it’s a big reason why I continued to play quarterback, and I was a freshman when he was a senior, and so I got to spend a whole school year with him watching him go from football to basketball, and how he conducted himself, and how he played the position. So I definitely knew I wanted to do that. So he was definitely a local hero.
National hero, Terry Bradshaw was my hero growing up. He was the Pittsburgh Steelers starting quarterback, won four Super Bowls, and definitely was the hero for me when it came to that. And then my father. My dad is a two-tour Vietnam veteran who raised three boys, self-made businessman, and he’s somebody that I have truly looked up to my whole life.
Luke: Yeah, you’re on Sirius XM? That’s pretty exciting, you talk about the PAC-12.
Leaf: Yeah. I was a communications major in college, so it’s what I wanted to do. But the last place I wanted to be was in a newsroom when I retired from the NFL. And I think there’s kind of a bit of karma there, the fact that I’m in media now because of how poorly I treated the media when I played. But it’s fun. I get to talk about football, college football, college sports, pro football, pro sports in general.
Sirius XM has been really neat to me, giving me plenty of opportunities and now that PAC-12 Network is starting to give me some opportunities. I got to call my first couple of college football games this year, which was great.
Luke: How much do you miss the former PAC-10?
Leaf: I miss it because I mispronounce it all the time when I’m going the show. I want to say PAC-10 all the time because it’s all I know. I think the addition of Colorado and Utah has been significant. I think they’ve made it more competitive. I don’t think they’ve diluted it at all, and we’ve seen that with the resurgence of Colorado in the last few years being competitive in the conference.
Leaf: If you come into the conference and you’re just kind of the doormat, there really isn’t a point, but if you’re able to come into the conference and actually contribute and compete and make it a solid strength of schedule type of matchup, I think that’s good.
And Utah really has a … Both of them do, but Utah really has a good shot this year to finally come out of the South as Division Champ.
Luke: Do you think it’s going to be hard to remain 100% objective if you get to call a WSU game?
Leaf: My first two games were Washington State games. And I was always worried that the words “we” was going to come out of my mouth, like, “We didn’t get it done there,” or “We made a big play there,” so I had to be really aware of it. I don’t think I flip-flopped to the other side where I was overly critical. I think I was just … You just try to observe, articulate, and inform the person at home, and I likened it to sitting on the couch with my dad growing up, just watching a football game and kind of commenting on it. And luckily for me, my play by play guy is also my cohost on my radio show every day, so him and I have a solid chemistry already, and it was really fun.
I wanted to take away two things from it. I wanted to take away the fact that I could do it and do it well and that I wanted to. That I really enjoyed it, and I really did. When it was done, I was like, darn it, I might not get an opportunity to call another game this year and I might have to wait a whole other year. And what I need right now is reps to get better and not to have them, so I started shadowing some guys. Last year I shadowed Brady Quinn and Joel Klatt and Kirk Herbstreit, and this year, recently I went and shadowed Greg McElroy with ESPN last weekend.
And I’ll continue to do that, just so I can learn more and when the next opportunity presents itself, take full advantage of it.
Luke: It’s a hard job when the camera’s rolling, it’s live, you have a finite amount of time to make an observation. I’m always blown away at how good the pros are.
Leaf: Yeah. Cris Collinsworth, for as much crap he takes from people, he is unreal. I did find out something though, that there is a device that they put in the … And I found this out the other night when I was with the ESPN crew, they put a monitor in there where they show the replay, like immediately after the play. And then the replay that the fans see on the television that he’s illustrating on, is after he’s watched it a couple times on the delayed one.
And that … I was like, oh, that makes it, wow, that makes it easier for me now to think that I could see it before and I know whose number and who made the block and what big play happened. Because I watched and I’m like, “How do you interpret that so fast and then articulate it to the audience.”
But I’ll utilize all the technology I can too, if I can be more educational for the listener at home.
Luke: I help the Root Sports guys when they broadcast Missoula, and I’m in the booth with them giving them stats. And they have that monitor and it’s still, I think it’s one of the coolest things. They’ll start a sentence, and I’ll slide them a stat, and they’ll look at it mid sentence and infuse that stat into the same sentence seamlessly. I think you guys-
Leaf: It’s the way we think, though. We think that way, we just need that little piece of … Like that stat is huge for us to formulate our statement. It’s big. Because we’re leaning that way, in fact we want that information, you were just able to give that to us and allow us to then formulate a bigger and better statement to inform the public who’s listening.
Luke: That’s cool. So we’ve talked about WSU just for a moment and I kind of wanted to go back to your experience there a little bit. First, I know how they have that saying, “Once a Coug, always a Coug,” like they have a very strong resonance with their alum.
Leaf: I’m wearing my Coug sweatpants right now.
Luke: Yeah, you are.
Leaf: Yep.
Luke: So talk to me about what it means to be an alum of WSU and what they continue to mean to you.
Leaf: It’s pretty special. I always found it funny to see all the Griz fans in Montana just because half of the Griz fans in Montana didn’t even go to school here, you know?
Luke: Yeah.
Leaf: It’s almost like, they’re pro football so they jump on that bandwagon, and I always ask that question, I say, “Do you go to school there?” And they’re like, “No.” And I’m like, “Well, why are you so diehard for them then?”
Being a Cougar is exactly that. There’s nowhere else in the world where you decide at 18 on who you’re going to be the rest of your life. Your identity, you know? I chose at 18 years old that I was going to be a Cougar the rest of my life.
And going to Washington State University is a different dynamic, right? We could be on the opposite side of the world walking through an airport and somebody can see me in my sweats, or a hat, and you hear somebody shout out, “Go Cougs!” and the response immediately is, “Go Cougs!” back to me. It’s a decision we make, and it’s pretty special.
And to be an alumni from there is big because we’re kind of an underdog within our conference, always have been. We’ve had years where we excel, but we’ve kind of always been maybe a little bit of the baby brother of the conference, and it’s neat to see them under the tutelage of Mike Leach to kind of get back towards the top year in and year out now.
Luke: So I’m thinking of you going to WSU and hearing you talk about it makes me really happy for you and you’ve had this experience. But I’m still sort of pissed as a Griz fan that Don Read or the administration here didn’t find a way to secretly give you a dump truck of cash and say, “Come on, play with Dave again.”
What went into your decision to choose WSU? I know you probably had a lot of offers.
Leaf: Yeah, that was the one thing, is that my ego had kind of gotten … starting to get really involved there when I was a 17 year old kid and all of a sudden I was being recruited by every college in the country. The fact that Montana was one of them, for me, made me feel like I was better than that.
I came down for an unofficial recruiting trip, and watched Dave play against I believe either Idaho or Boise State, and Dave was my host. And Dave took me out the night after the game, and then he kind of blatantly came up and said, “Hey, the coaches wanted me to ask you, are you even going to consider Montana? Because if you’re not, they don’t want to put the effort into the recruiting process,” and stuff like that, and you know, I was truthful with him, I said my answer. I said, “Yeah, I’m not going to come here.” And he was like, that’s great, man, good luck.
And what’s funny about it is we ended up playing each other my freshman year of college. I was redshirting … No, it was my second year. It was my second year of college because I played in the game, and it was the year they would go on to win the national championship in ’95. And it really shows you the dispersity of talent and scholarships and things like that because they would go on to be the best team in Division 1-AA that year, and we would go on and win three games. We’d go three and eight, and we beat them bad enough that I actually got in the game and played quarterback late in the ballgame. So it was fun to watch him play, always was, and I was really happy to see him go on and win a national championship.
But I’m sure that if I’d have told them, I said, “Hey, man, you’re in the mix.” I’m sure they would have put the full court press on and tried to get it done.
Luke: That’s a great “what if.”
Leaf: I probably would have, if it came between the Griz and the Cats, I would’ve went to the Bobcats, just because my dad went there, I just kind of saw them as a little bit of the underdog when it came … And what I remember growing up is the 1984 National Championship, Montana State Bobcats. That team, Kelly Bradley, I think his name was, quarterback, and so I most likely, if it would have come between Montana State and Montana, I probably would have been a Bobcat. Sorry to say, Montana fans-
Luke: That’s a less interesting “what if,” all of a sudden.
So you mentioned your ego at the time, and that really sets the stage for what I think is one of the most unique comeback stories of all time. And really informs what you’re up to today. So maybe if you could take some time, you’re a Brand Ambassador for Transcend, and you have a foundation, Focused Intensity.
Leaf: Yeah, I wear a lot of hats right now. It’s a fulfilling and busy life. It started out small. I started out as a driver and a house manager for Transcend Recovery Community in Los Angeles. This was about three months after I got out of prison.
Luke: And what do they do?
Leaf: They work in the sober living realm, where they have sober living environment homes, a detox center, outpatient facilities for people who deal with mental health and substance abuse issues. And that’s where I started. I started in the house that way. And then my boss, who has become my business partner, and now one of my best friends, it evolved into a position of brand, or program ambassador within the company.
We have facilities in Los Angeles, Houston and New York. I’m also the chairman of a nonprofit where we raise money for scholarships for people who can’t afford substance abuse and mental health treatment. So we essentially send people to treatment who want the help who can’t afford it.
And then of course, I delved into the broadcasting side. I’m a radio show host for Sirius XM PAC-12 Network and Mad Dog Sports Radio as well as doing analyst work for the PAC-12 Television Network. And then I started a company called Ram Consultant, and I travel around the country and consult with different programs, give motivational and inspirational speeches, and I do that, so I stay very, very busy. But it was what was needed.
And all of this that I do kind of revolves around the mantra of being of service as a foundation, and if that hadn’t occurred, then none of this would have probably been possible.
Luke: How did that occur?
Leaf: In prison. My roommate, he was an Afghan-Iraqi war veteran, and he had driven drunk one night here in Missoula, I believe, and killed somebody. And I watched him make amends and try to be a better person every day we were in there. And I just thought it was absurd, I thought he was silly. I said, “We’re losers. This is not going to help us.”
And he had enough one day and he just got on my case and told me how I didn’t understand the value of what I had, not only for the men in there but for when I got out, and he suggested we go down and help prisoners who didn’t know how to read learn how to read. And that was Day One.
And of course, it’s been many days since, and it’s been a constant building on that foundation, but I think that was the start of it. I didn’t know it was happening at that time and I probably didn’t realize it completely either when I left prison, but I knew that I was going to have to be a different person, otherwise I was just going to go back or end up dead, to be honest.
Luke: He seems like a real fascinating character, person, in your story. What do you think is the switch that flips in someone, that makes them want to have a Day One?
Leaf: There comes a point where the pain of what you’re going through has to get to a point where it’s less than the pain you’re going through for not changing. It’s weird. Some people never get to that point. I’d never got to it until I was humbled in a way, where I was in a prison cell. This little kid from Great Falls who never saw that as even a possibility was right there. But I should have known that a little kid from Great Falls who never saw something as a possibility easily can come true because the odds of me making it to the NFL were astronomical.
I’m the only Montanan who’s ever been drafted in the first round of the NFL draft. There are more first round draft picks in the Manning family than the whole state of Montana, ever. So there’s a uniqueness that I thought I had. I wasn’t supposed to get there, ever.
And I’m not supposed to be alive right now to tell the story because of my addiction and of where I had to go because of that addiction, so there’s a reason why I’m here and it’s definitely become a very spiritual awakening for me because of it.
Luke: They say when people change, and some people never change, but when they do, they gain something and oftentimes they lose something, to have a real change. What do you think you maybe gained, and what pieces maybe did you lose in this transformation?
Leaf: Well, I gained humility and humility for me is the understanding of who you are, what your core values are. That’s what true humility is no matter what anybody says about you, to you, or anything. You know who you are and you’re okay with that. I think I gained that.
I don’t know what I lost. I lost a lot of character defects, which are good things to lose. I cannot say, from all my travels and tribulations and adversity, I cannot say that I really regret any of it. I’m grateful to have spent 32 months in prison. I don’t recommend it for anybody, but I’m grateful for that.
Luke: And when you think back on your journey and what had to happen for you to get to a position today, I think it’s really powerful for you to acknowledge that you don’t regret it, that you’re making positive impacts in people’s lives that maybe you wouldn’t have ever made had you not suffered.
Leaf: Oh, yeah. The impact I have on people now would have never happened if I would have been a good football player, won a couple Super Bowls and rode off into the sunset. The impact I would have on people, it makes me more relatable. We’re alike. We struggle. Just like every human being, we’re flawed and we’re trying to be better every day.
And sometimes that athlete that’s on that pedestal that seems so perfect, you admire them but you don’t feel like you can relate to them. And I think that has allowed for me to connect with a lot more people than I ever would have if I would have just kind have been … I’d essentially be kind of like a 42 year old asshole with two Super Bowl rings right now, that’s about the definition of what I would be.
Luke: So I noticed that you’ve taken on a lot of personal responsibilities for how you were, old Ryan, which again, is empowering because it proves to you that you are in control of your situation, but I have noticed in some interviews and your E60 documentary that you give a lot of plaudits to the people in your life that helped build you up.
But I don’t hear you thank yourself a lot. Say something nice about Ryan Leaf today.
Leaf: You know, that’s neat. Because everybody kind of gives me everything to allow me to be the person I am. You know, I’m caring. I think I’ve always been caring. I just think that I got in the way of that, me personally, got in the way of actually caring for people. I think I’m caring. I’m a good father.
Luke: You have a son.
Leaf: Yeah.
Luke: How old is he?
Leaf: He’s going to be a year here, October 5.
Luke: Okay.
Leaf: I’m a good father. I’m a good fiance right now, hoping to be a good husband. I’m the things that are important in life. I’m a good father, I know that, and that’s going to push me down the line to continue to behave in the manner I’ve become accustomed to the last few years.
Luke: For someone who hasn’t maybe made the switch, and when I consider all the people in their lives that are watching them struggle, what can people do to help their loved ones struggling?
Leaf: Well, you can do everything you want to. You can do everything that you think you can, but if the person that’s struggling isn’t willing to accept that they are in trouble, and surrender, then nothing’s going to change. And so that’s always my biggest thing. I think some people tend to ask for help, but then when the help you offer them isn’t what they want, they’ll push it away.
You have to be willing to surrender and understand that your way doesn’t work, and accept the help from people who have been through what you’re going through, and that’s exactly what I did. I found people in my life that essentially had what I wanted, and that was a peaceful, unchaotic life, and I went up to them and I asked them how they got it. And then I followed the directions verbatim.
Luke: Addiction affects millions. I know there’s stats out there, 10, 30, 50 million people in this country. It’s a real healthcare crisis. But I feel like it’s still plagued with a stigma that addiction is some moral defect and not a healthcare matter to be considered like any other healthcare matter. It’s considered completely differently. Is it hard being Ryan Leaf with this stigma? Because it seems like people only maybe choose to know one side of you.
Leaf: No, it isn’t because I know who I am and I know that that is a disease that I had. It’s a treatable disease. If I told you that one in every five people who had cancer only sought treatment, you’d think that was crazy.
Luke: Right, yeah.
Leaf: One in five people who have addiction issues actually seek and get treatment. And that needs to change. It’s science. This is a medical disease that afflicts the brain, and there are resources and there are, I won’t say cures, because I don’t like that word because it’s a constant maintenance program just like if you’re a diabetic. Same thing. So yes. I can’t control what people think or do, I can only control what I do and what I say and how I choose to attack the day. And that’s, for me, is to be part of the solution.
Now there are things that were happening in the ’60s that still haven’t changed, stigma-wise. I may not be around to actually see the end of this stigma, but I can contribute every single day I get up and be part of that solution, and hopefully get a chance to see that change where, or if somebody’s dealing with a mental health disorder or a substance abuse disorder and they actually come forward and just tell their friends and their peers and everybody around them that I’m struggling and I need help, and they’re not looked upon as weak or crazy or any of those things that are associated with the stigma that exists.
Luke: Oh, that’s a day I look forward to in a big way. Ryan, where do you see yourself in five years?
Leaf: You know, I don’t look ahead at all. I only look at what’s in front of me today. And if I do the same thing as I’m doing today that I did yesterday, I’ll probably lay my head down a sober man, which will allow for the next day to present itself. And the good thing about being an athlete, you’re regimented.
In recovery, it’s very similar. I have a very regimented schedule I stick to. I’m a creature of habit when it comes to that. It also helps me be held accountable by the people that I’ve surrounded myself with when I exhibit old behaviors so I can address them in a healthy and positive way, and that’s just different behavior for me.
If people tried to hold me accountable or show me the mirror in a sense in the past, I would just, essentially just remove them from my life. And I know that my best thinking takes me to a prison cell. So that was hard to admit because I felt like how could somebody who thought that way make it to the level or have the success that I did?
There’s a fine line between a lead athlete and asshole. And you just kind of bounce back and forth from there, and once you can confront that and understand that you need help in all aspects of decision making because you don’t do it properly, that’s a shift, and you think differently and you go to the right people and they keep you on the straight and narrow as well.
Luke: Are you still a hyper competitive person?
Leaf: Yeah, probably.
Luke: So if we were to pull out a ping pong table-
Leaf: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I’d be competitive. But if I were to lose, I wouldn’t act out. I could take a ribbing and stuff like that. In my days of living here in Montana and competing all over the state in Big Sky State games and summer tournaments and then high school football, basketball, competitions, it was brutal. It was about, I had to win at everything. And if I didn’t, it was the end of the world, it really was.
And of course now, if I lose, it’s not the end of the world. I understand that … The funny thing is that I just assume that I’ll pick up a ping pong paddle and I’ll win. And I have never picked up a ping pong paddle before.
Luke: You’ve never picked-
Leaf: Oh, I mean, I have maybe once or twice in my life, right-
Luke: I was going to say, let’s go play, I’ll beat Ryan Leaf at one thing.
Leaf: Yeah. So, you know, for some reason I just assume I’m supposed to … I was training the other day and I watched Saquon Barkley do this 315 pound dead lift and then vertical jump 36 inches, I think. And I was watching the video and I was on my radio show and I’m like, I can do that. I can do that. I can do that, I know I can do that.
So I went to the gym afterwards and I was with my trainer, and I set up the whole thing. He’s watching me do it and I got 315 pounds on the deadlift, and a little box jump at 36 or 38 inches there, and I’m getting ready and my trainer’s like, “What are you doing?” And I said, “I want you to film this because I want to be like, ‘It ain’t no bid deal, Saquon,-
Luke: Saquon, what’s up?
Leaf: 42 year old Ryan Leaf busts it out.'” And he looks at me and he’s like, “I’m not letting you do this.” And I’m like, “What are you talking about?” And he wouldn’t let me do it. And he-
Luke: With someone with your injury history, that’s a good trainer.
Leaf: I mean, you just forget. Like you’re an elite athlete at one point. Those guys are freaks of nature. I could do it once but it’s still in your mind … It thinks you can do it again. And that’s where I was, right?
Luke: Yeah.
Leaf: I probably would have hurt myself. I don’t know about the … I can do the 315 deadlift but after doing that and having the legs fatigued, I probably would have ended up pulling something or smashing my shins against the box, and he was smart.
But yeah, I’m still competitive in everything I do. I just don’t take it as seriously, is a good way to put it.
Luke: So at family reunions, who’s the best quarterback in the family between you, your brother, and the Kegels?
Leaf: Oh, me for sure, you know. If it wasn’t, everybody else would have been the second pick in the NFL draft, come on.
My brother broke every one of my records at CMR, Dave’s as well, went on to Oregon, played really well there. If Chip Kelly doesn’t come in and change the offense, you know, he’s most likely to quarterback there at Oregon.
And then Matt, Matt comes along, follows me at Washington State, and ends up probably winning the biggest Bowl game victory that they’ve ever had beating Vince Young and Cedric Benson and Texas in the Holiday Bowl. So Justin, of course, at Montana Tech.
People get lost in my middle brother Jeffrey, who was an unbelievable all state cornerback for the Rustlers. And he went off and went to San Diego State, and was going to play basketball. He walked on as a basketball player there, and then fell in love with the theater and became a drama student, and now is an actor and director.
Luke: No way. Does he live in L.A. with you?
Leaf: Yeah. He lives in L.A. and New York, back and forth. So he gets to be Uncle Jeff a lot lately with the new one in town.
Luke: Oh, that’s so cool. How about basketball? I’ve heard, I just remember growing up and hearing legends of all the heroes in the area, and I remember a story a baseball coach I had tell, of you just being able to stand underneath a basketball rim and 360 dunk it. Is this true?
Leaf: Yeah. I mean, I could jump. I always could do that. I won all the slam dunk contests I entered in high school. Montana, Wyoming, all star game, I was the slam dunk champion in that deal, and-
Luke: Could you have played in the NBA?
Leaf: Probably. I tried to play in college. I played my freshman year of college as well, basketball. I remember coming up to Shelby, where you’re from, and playing with Mat Seidensticker. We used to play a lot together growing up, and I don’t know what it was about that gym floor, but it was like a trampoline sometimes. I could jump higher in that gym, me and Matt could do some crazy dunks in that gym for whatever reason.
And there was a core group of us kind of from the Hi-Line and down into Great Falls, Simms, Fairfield, who got together and played a ton of basketball together.
Luke: Was that like the Gamradts?
Leaf: Gamradt kids, Gustafsons out of Simms, who else? I forget who … Lee Larson out of Belt, Reece Gliko, Matt Hagom , Jesse Grossman, we had a crew that we would run. We’d get together and that Big Sky State Games Champion team was full of those guys. Jesse Grossman, Lee Larson, myself, Jake Gustafson, we ended up playing all the AA guys
Luke: That’s a highlight reel of Montana legends.
Leaf: Yeah.
Luke: So who makes your Montana sports Mt. Rushmore?
Leaf: Well, Barstool Sports here?
Luke: Yeah.
Leaf: All right. Montana, huh?
Luke: You can’t include yourself.
Leaf: No, I don’t … That would be quite hubris. I would probably say Dave Dickenson is right at the top there for sure. Maybe like … That’s hard to do. I want to go with my era, and I’m like, the best basketball player I’ve ever seen from this state is Jake Gustafson. So-
Luke: I’ve heard stories.
Leaf: Yeah. He’s the best basketball player. For his stature, he was maybe 5’10, 5’11. Boy, he just could shoot. He could score like nobody’s business. And when he wanted to he’d play defense. So if I’m picking sports, I’d be like, all right, football, Dave Dickenson. Basketball, Jake Gustafson, let’s go baseball, I don’t know. Sometimes I get lost with Montana. I think Ryan Sandberg started it in Helena, with the-
Luke: Yeah.
Leaf: -you know, and maybe I’d throw him on there for baseball, because that was my hero, Ryan Sandberg was, and then for the other sport I’d probably think of women’s basketball, for me. And maybe Shannon Cate-
Luke: Sure.
Leaf: -you know? That’s who I remember.
Luke: She’s still around.
Leaf: Yeah. So that probably would be my Mount Rushmore of Montana athletes probably.
Luke: That’s a good list.
Leaf: We could actually put, if you wanted to we could just put the … My grandmother had a grandson as a quarterback in the PAC-10 conference for 14 straight years. 1994 to 2008. Me, Matt Kegel, and then Brady Leaf as a quarterback in the PAC-12 conference, PAC-10 conference at the time. So you could almost make a Mount Rushmore out of my grandma’s grandsons of Montana, which would be pretty cool. And that’s amazing.
Luke: I think we should just put your grandma up there.
Leaf: Yeah. She probably should be put on that for sure. We just had her 90th birthday party this summer, and I get to see her tonight actually, so I’m excited.
Luke: Well, you told me you’re on the road, heading over the mountains. You’re going to see your grandma and your family, so we’ll let you go here. But thank you so much, Ryan.
Luke: Is there anything you want to say to the Montanans listening to this about your journey, about addiction, about the foundation?
Leaf: Well, I think that every single one of you who are listening are human beings just like me. Flawed human beings just like me. And you have an opportunity to be part of the solution or not. And you can make a choice to deal with something in a healthy, positive way or a negative and toxic one. And that’s always on you.
Leaf: You can contribute whether you do it by donating, or whether you do it by reaching your hand out to somebody who’s still struggling, or just simply chooses to do the next right thing and tries to be better the next day. That’s entirely up to you. And it took me a long time to figure that out, and it sounds really simple, but it’s really hard. It’s hard to take the high road and it’s easier to be judgemental and angry and fearful and those things of what you may not know. But to actually be understanding and have an open mind and understand that your story is just as impactful as mine. That’s how you can be of service. You can tell your story because you’re another human being just like me and you’ve dealt with adversity your whole life and I guarantee you, if I sat in the audience of anyone who would tell their life story, I would be inspired because you’re still there, you’re still standing. That means you still got up. You got up every morning and you came and you did this work, and you are still here. The journey’s over when you don’t get back up. And too many of our peers, or our fellow human beings, are choosing not to get back up and we have to be there to give them a hand when that struggle gets real.
Luke: Awesome. Ryan, you’re a great dude. You were a great athlete, but more importantly, I think you’re doing wonderful things with your life now, and you’re a blessing to so many people. I can’t thank you enough.
So everyone out there, you can listen to Ryan on PAC-12 This Morning on Sirius XM Channel 373, Monday through Friday, 7:00 to 11:00 a.m. Mountain Time, right?
Leaf: 8:00 to 11:00 Mountain Time.
Luke: 8:00 to 11:00 Mountain Time.
Leaf: And then Saturday nights on Mad Dog Sports Radio, Sirius XM Channel 82, from 9:00 p.m. til midnight, recapping all college football, previewing all pro football, and then in the Fall here, talking about major league baseball playoffs that are going to start up in the next couple of weeks.
Luke: You are busy.
Leaf: Yeah, it’s fun. I get to talk sports for a living. That’s pretty cool.
Luke: Be sure to visit transcendrecoverycommunity.com and go to focusedintensity.org. Donate now. All donations received by the foundation go directly to scholarships for applicants. Don’t wait, do something, help our most vulnerable. Go donate now. Thanks, Ryan.
Leaf: You bet. Thanks for having me.
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